Phil Rose (00:16.302)
Welcome back to the Sparks by Ignium podcast. I am Phil Rose and today I'm delighted to be wrapping up 2025. Yes, 2025 is coming to an end and that means we are in time to do our wrap up of the whole of the year of our 17 podcasts that we've recorded so far. We've actually got three more to record this year but as it's now the 12th of December we need to get this one out. So here's to 2025. Firstly I'd like to say a really big thank you to all of the guests that have been on the show this year.

I have been intrigued by everybody's messages. I've been curious. I've been hopeful. I've been coached. And do you know what? I've learned so much. So welcome back to the Sparks Breaking in podcast. And today, as I say, is our wrap up session. So let's just get started. This year I've had conversations with founders, adventurous strategists, happiness experts, network thinkers, coaches, and leaders who are all wrestling with one central question. How do we build a business that makes money?

makes a difference and makes us better humans in the process. And throughout 2025, there's been one question I've kept asking my guests. What would you teach or tell your younger self? And something I think it's probably because I want to ask it. We always say in coaching that you can only see in others what you can see in yourself. And I guess I asked that question because maybe I'm looking for what that is for me as well. So from my perspective, maybe that's where I'm going. So what would I teach my younger self? You'll have to wait till the end of this show because I've got my own question.

But it's a deceptively simple question. The answer has been profound. They've woven a set of themes that keep showing up across all of the 17 episodes. Themes about courage, meaning, belonging, responsibility, and the real work of leading. So today, we're going to bring those voices together, almost like a gathering of every 2025 guest around one table asking, what did this year really teach us about leadership, scaling, and life? My hope is that as you listen through the next 30 minutes.

you'll find one idea, one message that sparks something in you as you head into 2026. So let's dive in. Firstly, the first thing that came up, you're not meant to do it alone. Let me repeat, the first thing that came up through all of the messages from the guests, you're not meant to do it alone. So one of the strongest things that came out was this self-sufficiency link from where you've been to getting support. We've always tried to be self-sufficient. That's what people are all about.

Phil Rose (02:42.574)
but the key is about having support. If I look back on my year, I engaged two coaches through this year, one through strategic coach and also my own coach, Chris Joseph, who Chris, if you're listening to this, I just hope you are. I've been grateful for the coaching you've given me over this year. It's been a transformational journey. And you know what I've been through. And again, I'm going to allude to that as we talk, but it has been transformational. And I invite you listeners to think about the words you would use in terms of what does self-sufficiency mean for you?

and how do you get more support as you push yourself forward over the next year and beyond? Because obviously that's what we want to really try to do as well. So let's go forward. So when I asked one of my guests, Sri Khasa, what he'd tell his younger self, he doesn't hesitate. He jumped straight in, asked for help. He talked about the years he spent proving he was capable, independent, resilient, and how he eventually realised that proving something and achieving something are very different things.

Asking for help isn't a mission of weakness. It's an invitation to shared ambition. It's like saying, what I'm building is bigger than one person. If you believe in it too, come along with me, join the journey. But also I think from that perspective, what I took from that is we all need someone walking alongside us, those footsteps in the sand. And that line stayed with me specifically. But then I think about Sally Kettle later in the year.

Her story spans two Atlantic rows, one of which was with her mother, if you remember, one was of the team of women. Mental health battles, eating disorders, and an extraordinary journey of self-discovery for Sally. And I'm delighted that Sally shared this. I've known of Sally and known Sally personally for a number of years now. And I think she's got such an amazing ability to tell stories. And I think when you listen to what she puts out there, we can all learn from that message, how stories engage, one of the big things I put out there as well.

So when I asked her what she'd tell a younger self, she jumped straight in as well. And guess what she said? Find your support network. You're not alone. Hey, get it, you're not alone. And we know that having that support network around you guides you through your life as well. So the more people we have around you, the better you can guide. But it doesn't have to be lots of people. It could just be one person. But one person that you can really share with, tell people what's really going on. If I think through the conversation I had with Mo Fattelbab two years ago.

Phil Rose (05:03.404)
That was his message and how the Entrepreneurs' Organization forums helped him share and what he learned from being part of that bigger organization. But for Sally itself, it meant in the most practical lived sense, in the moment when the oars break, when you're physically exhausted, when life throws you that something you just didn't see coming, that's when you need to turn to other people. It's those people who you choose that get you through the rubbish stuff, the stuff that's hard, the stuff that hurts.

the bit that really you need work on. So not everyone's a supporter. Not everyone gets a seat in your boat. And Sally learned that the hard way. And when she said, when she said, talking about her younger self, she needed to know that sooner. What could she have achieved if she had known that back in her really young days? And then I fast forward to Alan Donassio. Alan, my amazing friend in Singapore. He shared something really deeply honest about moving from being a directive leader, a typical mentor who gives advice, to becoming a coach.

He said that that shift started not just in him, but in him learning new tools and asking himself better questions. Hey, what a coaching thing to do. He learned to sit back, listen, and let silence do some of the heavy lifting. Let's just repeat that. Let silence do some of the heavy lifting. Often in business, we're too busy trying to give people the answer without allowing them space to think. If I go back to my 2017 coaching thesis when I started,

my coaching journey through the AOEC, I used Nancy Klein's material and I used her book specifically, Space and Time to Think was key to that because actually for me, that's what coaching is all about, helping people find their space. And for that place for Alan, he started inviting others to do the best thinking too. His younger self, he said, would have benefited from learning to ask before telling. Wow, how would that be if you did that?

ask before telling. What would you learn from that? What would other people gain? Where would they be able to ask their own questions and serve themselves better in longer term? Think about that for your children if you have them as well. How can you ask them questions? Get them to solve their own problems rather than you giving them the answers. That builds true resilience. And there's something universal in all of that and something that comes across all three of those conversations. The message that echoes. Ambition requires a support system.

Phil Rose (07:24.984)
There's no price for doing it alone, which is why I as a coach, using my scaling up knowledge, using my coaching knowledge from 20 years, work with other people. I want to bring that to other people because my belief is the more we go together, the better we build the business and the better we build our lives. There's no shame in asking for help. Now that's a big thing. When did you last ask for help? If you haven't, maybe now's the time.

So, I'll be honest with you. After 20 years of coaching, I still find myself falling into that trap. I should know better. I should think about that. I should always ask myself, okay, how would I do this if asked someone else? I told the story earlier about some of the stories I've been through this year. The messages I've been telling myself. For those who don't know, I damaged my neck back in January doing a headstand on a beach. Oh yes, I was on a surf lesson, but at age 54, I didn't know how to do it properly.

I did it because I thought it'd be fun. And since then I've had issues in my body, which I've had to manage. I did go and ask for help. I brought on Chris Joseph to help me. He's a great coach, he's a great runner, he's a great friend. And what he taught me was the fact that we don't have to go alone. Where should I be asking for help? And if you're going through your own transformational journey, it's actually therefore the thing that asking for help isn't about failure. It's about maturity, it's about better wisdom.

And that's something me as a 55 year old have had to learn. I wish I'd learned it sooner as well. So like all of my guests, the younger piece of advice I'd give myself is ask for help sooner. And if you think about leaders in scale up businesses where the stakes are high, where you've got a team, the pace is relentless, decisions are lonely, this might be the single most important mind shift you need in 2026. So if you're not asking for help, now's the time. Get a coach, get a friend, ask for it.

What was the second thing that came out for me? Well, this came from a number of areas, but specifically, adulting and ownership. No one is coming to rescue you. Now that's interesting because that might be contradictory to what I just said, but the key is it's asking for help, realising you can do it on own, but we can ask for that help as well. Because if no one's coming to get you, we're our own, but maybe we're not. Maybe we can come out and ask for that help as well. And this is where Helen Nicholson jumped in. She had this concept around actually, stop thinking about that.

Phil Rose (09:46.86)
Her view was adulting is not that superficial internet version of who you really are. It's actually about being something different, understanding who you are. And when she said no one is coming to save you, remember, she was brought up in Africa, a very different mindset when she was growing up. But she says, you've got to take responsibility. No boss, no partner, no mentor, no magic opportunity. Now, let's think about how that fits into the previous message about asking for help, because there's something there.

If you take full responsibility and response-ability, you are responsible for the whole of your reality, everything that goes on around you. Nobody can make you feel anything. And now that's an interesting concept, I might come back to you later. But nobody also can guide you unless you have that internal thought process yourself. You've got to be able to make decisions based on that help. Because if you've got your network surrounding you, it's up to you to think about how those people impact you and how they can help you as well. So that's my point of view.

What else can we do? Because from Helen's point of view, it's a liberating message. Adulting at the moment is the key. It's stop outsourcing your own agency. It's the moment you take responsibility for your health, your network, your learning, your focus, your decisions, because no one else can do it for you. It's up to you at whatever age, realize you've got to make that decision. Yes, you get support, but it's up to you to go find it. So I asked her what she'd tell her younger self. She said something beautifully simple. Believe.

people the first time they show you who they are. Believe people the first time they show you who are. That's a message that she put out. It's advice that has saved her. And honestly, it's great thing for all of us. So, Helen also talked about intentional networking. Farming, not hunting. She talked about two coffees a week, consistently. Not transactional, but relational. Building those relationships with people. Not needy, but generous. Not strategic in that cynical sense.

but strategic in a human sense. How do you build on that? Because from her perspective, actually, networking is about finding other people that you can support. And I think there's something there as well. I remember years ago when I was first building my business in 2004, one of the messages that put out for me is, give us gain. And I wonder does give us gain mean? It meant the more you put out, the more you get back. You could call it karma, but the message is you've got to do that. You can't just be take, take, take. So when we talk about asking for help,

Phil Rose (12:12.076)
what else can you do to help others? Now, help's an interesting word. My intent back in 2008 when I originally started coaching was to help. I wanted to help everybody. But I soon realised I couldn't do that. So I've had to change my messaging and change my thinking. Because if I'm in a helping state, you can put people into a victim mode. So I had to step into that other context, moving from fear to love to realise, actually, what can I do to support? How can I guide? How can I offer thoughts that might...

work for you. If it works for me, it doesn't necessarily mean it works with you. And that's something I think which stuck with me on my very last podcast I recorded last week with Sharon Spano. We explored adult development stages and this idea of feeling stuck is not always a sign of failure because often it's a sign that you're stretching into the next stage of your own evolution. That's key because confusion comes when you make that transition and we have to go through that. So what Sharon said was that people sometimes burn their lives down.

They resign, they divorce, they implode through other things. Not because something's wrong, but because they're transitioning to a later stage, something further on. And no one has taught them how to do that. That's a key thing. Her message to her younger self, pay attention to what your young inner world is asking you to grow into. Pay attention to what your young inner world is asking you to grow into. So, when you put Helen and Sharon side by side, you get a real powerful message. Grow up, take responsibility, and honor your own evolution.

No one can do that for you. But you don't have to do it alone. Because actually that's the message you need to bring out there. You're not alone. So go and ask for help. And it might be, get a coach like I've done over my years. If I think about the money I've spent on coaching, it's been invaluable. If I think about the money I've spent on personal development in the last 20 years, it's been invaluable. It's helped me get to where I am. Each piece was growing on the last. If you told me 20 years ago what this would rather be now, would I have known it? No.

but I did do some vision planning, so I had a view of it. So my view is, nobody can do it for you, but you don't have to go alone. And there's a beautiful paradox for that in any leader stepping into a bigger 2026. So what's next? The third thing that came out, meaning and happiness are serious business. Now, I've loved this. I talked to Nick Marks, as you know, and that's one of the key things I want to delve into, because it was a refreshing conversation with Nick. Nick I spoke to first in 2021.

Phil Rose (14:37.646)
But he's made a career out of challenging the idea that happiness is soft, fluffy and frivolous. It's not. Nick put it bluntly, happiness at work is a serious business issue. That's the title of his book. He said, organizations that treat wellbeing as a gimmick with slices of pizza in the office, with a slide, with big Friday sessions where you just get drunk, that's not key. The key thing is mindfulness is the key thing for this.

making sure you're doing something that's really appropriate for the people, being mindful of what people need. Gen Z and others aren't looking for those different perks. They're looking for meaning. They want work that matters. If they want to be engaged, now, engagement's an interesting one as I catch myself saying that, does engagement just mean productivity? No, it doesn't. It means people showing up who really want to be part of your team. So we all need this. We say about Gen Z, but you know, from my perspective, I was born in 1970. I want meaning in my work.

Everybody wants meaning. Yes, they might say they just want the money at end of the day, and that's key. But think about where they can evolve to if you give them meaning, they do bring more to work to work. When you have a purpose above and beyond making money, it all becomes really clear. So they want meaning, they want work that matters, they want work that feels aligned with their values. They want work that contributes something. Nick said that happiness, real happiness, is not fleeting joy. It's about functioning well.

feeling part of something, feeling that what you do counts, feeling that in a very different way, actually it's the thing that makes your business work because when you feel content, you feel able to push more, you feel able to do more. And this came back up again when I talked to Sally because what she talked about is role modelling. Now remember Sally, she's an adventurer, she's a speaker, she's an entertainer in that sense because she's on stage all the time, but she's also a Girl Guide leader. She's Deputy Chief Girl Guide.

She's got a moral view of where the world works. And when I shared the story of my daughter wanting to work with neuropatients, because that work gives her meaning, Sally connected to that. Because my daughter is a physio, wants to do something that brings meaning. Yes, she needs money, but she wants to help people heal, whether it's with her amputees, with neuropatients, which might be MS, motor neurone disease, or Parkinson's. That's where she wants to be. Now she's striving to do that as a 23 year old.

Phil Rose (17:03.31)
But it reminded me when I talked to Sam about that, that meaning isn't just a philosophical concept. It's a behavioural driver and we need to understand that as people. It shapes effort, loyalty, resilience, creativity and performance. And for leaders, especially scale-up leaders again, the message is unmistakable. If you want people to stay, grow and give their best, they need to feel what they're doing matters. Hey, you can attract all the A players in the world.

but they've got to buy into your culture because that's what A-players are about. Buying into the values and then they perform. It's all key. So meaning isn't a luxury. It's part of what you do. It should be integral to your business. So go out there and make it. 2026 is the year of meaning. And finally, where do we go next? Segment four. I talked to Alex Smith later on in the year and he had a couple of messages on this and I've used some of the phrases he used to tie this together. Be the only.

not the best, tie it in with purpose and profit. So that's a really key thing from my perspective. Alex said that his argument is bold. He said, stop trying to be better than everyone else, but be the only, because when you're the only, you can just do things differently. That doesn't mean you have to not be better, because we've all got to improve 1 % better every year. But when you become better, it locks into that comparison piece. You're always comparing yourself to someone else, whether it's on Instagram, TikTok.

or whether it's in business. If you're trying to be better than everyone else, it doesn't work. Be different, stand out. And that's the key. He said that every small business should start mapping the landscape, not just the customer. Because if you understand the landscape and who plays where, you understand what gaps exist. And where the weird or unusual things are happening, you find your little point of difference. So what makes you stand out? If you can't find a point of difference, you have a strategy problem, not a marketing problem. Now that's key, a strategy problem, not a marketing problem.

What do you need to do? Let's go into strategy. Because what Alex said, which was quite provocative, he said also, purpose must be reverse engineered from how you make money. Now, I slightly have a view on this because actually purpose is key. We always talk about purpose above and beyond making money, but we know in business of any kind you've got to make money as well. I'm not advocating for not making money. I'm saying you do both. And Alex is key on that. Find out how you make money and then work on the purpose. Now you might say purpose comes first and then you build it.

Phil Rose (19:30.68)
But either way, work out what you need purpose-wise and build the strategy to deliver on that. Because actually, when you get that, you get a real sense of being. And talking about the previous one, finding the moral that people want to work with, it's actually about purpose that's grounded in the commercial engine and the business as well. You've got to do both. Now, flipping back to the beginning of the year, I spoke to Chantelle Canelius, and she helped us explore what strategy meant from a slightly different angle, the emotional angle.

Think about how that works as well. She said that businesses obsess over what they do and forget how they make people feel. Now we know that. Maya Angelou said this, people will never forget how you made them feel. And I think that's a really key point. Most leaders never ask the question, how does working with us feel? Now that's interesting, isn't it? Think about the best relationship you've had in business over the last year. Where would that feeling fit into it? Because we know that when we feel good, we're going to be staying around with people.

And that's a key in business. Such a simple question, but opens up such a big world of insight. So in that conversation, she went back to say, what's my emotional impact? And what we concluded is being a safe pair of hands. As a coach, that's a key thing, because actually I want people to trust where I'm going. I want them to feel safe in my coaching, in my style, so that they can relate to it. I'm not giving them advice.

I'm helping them think for themselves. They want to share things with me. So being a safe pair of hands, it's not flashy, it's not loud. To me, it's about grounded, calm, and it's about that holding space for clarity and thinking, like we said earlier. And it made me reflect. Is being a safe pair of hands what clients feel, then how should I develop the strategy around that? How do I develop my messaging? And if I put what Alex said and what Chantelle said together, the lesson's powerful. Be unmistakably yourself.

commercially and emotionally. Be only me. There is only one me. And make people feel something true because that's the key to this as well. Make people feel something true. So here we go. Where are we leading this to? The key is all around three things to tie together. And that's where this last theme of the year comes in. And I talk about networks, tribes, and the real power of real conversation. Links all these things together. And here's the one that's touched my heart.

Phil Rose (21:58.006)
If you get those honest conversations together, where you're being open, being vulnerable, as Helen said, she talks about two coffees a week, a small compounding investment in connection. It's what we all talk about, the more relationship build. She talked about building it being a connector, the person who generously introduces others, saying, tell them I sent you, because then people feel they're part of that. It's that virtuous circle coming back again. She said that phrase, and it can change people's lives. Think about

If you've been in Entrepreneurs' Organisation, created by Vern more than 30 years ago, if you're part of that, if you're part of the forums, you understand what relief leaders feel when they finally got a space to say what's going on. The things they can't tell their husband or their wife or their partner. Because every CEO is listening and they know this. So for you, what is it you can't usually tell your staff that you need to share with other people? You need to build your tribe. A tribe of people like you. And that's the key.

Now I have one other interesting conversation here. I spoke to Sass who produces this podcast and she said something interesting. We talked about openly talking about emotion and it's about moments in the podcast where I felt things differently. And you might have noticed over the year I feel the emotions well out in me when I'm talking about things. Whether it's my family, whether it's my children. She caught me off guard when she asked that. She said that openness, that willingness to show emotion is the one of the things that makes conversations feel real. And it made me reflect on that. That's what I do.

This podcast is about real conversations with real humanity. I don't want to talk to people who just trying to sell their business. I want people to listen to this, who actually have a meaning in their own life and want to develop that. In my own business, Igneum, we talk about how we can spark that, how we can rekindle your passion for your business, for your people, for the people who are really part of you. Because again, that's what this is all about, building a team of people. So I didn't want polished answers in the podcast.

I don't want perfect leadership. people to tell me what's really going on. I'm not looking for that Instagram thing that's out there perfect. I want human beings willing to tell the truth, to come forward and talk to me. And maybe that's why listeners keep coming back. If I look at our listener base and thank you for listening. We couldn't do this without you because we want to help people learn. We want people to share. We want people to build a better humanity. If I look at the purpose of what we're all about, it's about inspiration. How can we enable you through our messages?

Phil Rose (24:25.166)
through the people we're talking to. Because in a noisy world with hundreds of podcasts out there, you have a choice when you sit in the car, when you walk your dog, where you go for a run about what you listen to. It might be music, it might be something else. But if you listen to a podcast, I'd love you to listen to this one and I'd love you to share it with everyone else. Because we believe we're putting out honest messages and we believe that honest leadership is a rare thing that we want to tap into. So that's the key. So let's just wrap all this up there. If I could tell my younger self one thing.

I started this off at the beginning. If I could tell myself younger thing, my younger self something, what would it be? Well, there's five key messages that come out from my guests over this year. And maybe that's all we need to hear. The first one, ask for help. You're not meant to do this alone. Number two, take responsibility. Nobody's coming and that's empowering. Number three, build meaning into your work. Happiness is not soft, it's strategic. And linking into that, be the only.

Not just the best, the only. Anchor purpose in how you create value. And linking that back to gain. Invest in your network and your inner world, that thing of who you are. The tribe around you takes your trajectory. You are the sum of all the people you know, so make sure you pick your friends as well. And I say that pick your friends as well. Where can you contribute to their lives as well? Now, if I were speak to my younger self, I'd probably say something like this. You don't need all the answers Phil. You don't need to have them.

What you do need to do is you need to have the questions. You don't need to prove yourself. Just stay curious, stay open, keep asking better questions. For those who know me, I always said that I was an engineer when I was growing up. I was a mechanical engineer at Rolls-Royce and I was paid for the answers I gave. As I've transitioned to coaching, I now say jokingly, but truthfully, I'm paid for the questions I ask. So the key is here, stay curious, stay open, ask better questions.

And surround yourself with people that bring out the best in you. Because those are the people that really mean things. That's the way that the path would unfold. Just keep walking and do it with purpose. Above all, purpose is the key for this. When I look at my world, I want this to be a purposeful world. So as I go into 2026, that's what I want to be bringing out. We've got plans for this podcast over the next five plus years. Now that will take us to 2030 and beyond. I'm going to be 60 by that time. I want to look at how I unfold over that time.

Phil Rose (26:50.786)
So if you're with me, come on the journey. Thank you for being part of the community, the tribe in 2025. I've loved putting out this message. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing your comments. Thank you for sending your messages. Thank you for the reflections you sent me. And also for thank you for being part of this community of leaders that's growing, who want to build businesses that truly matter. Because you know that when you build businesses that matter, that's when people truly connect. So here's to 2026, to the sparks that will ignite.

The sparks will ignite you, the conversation's yet to come, and the leaders will all still be coming. Because as we evolve, we evolve together. If you want to be on that journey, I'm looking forward to being here with you. See you next year. Here's to 2026.